Can you write a decent haiku


Leave the archive and display this page in the standard design: Will alternative operating systems such as Haiku or Syllable conquer the desktop?


Windows is bold, sluggish, closed source and unpopular.
Many people like Linux, but it is not that easy to use for the 08/15 user
and the desktop environments like KDE and Gnome need a computer with decent performance.

But there are still slim, fast alternatives that are intended for desktop use, such as Syllable and Haiku.

The development of them is not finished yet, so there is no 1.0 version yet, but they are constantly being developed and at some point, maybe in 10 years, they will be mature.
You can see it in other software projects that took half an eternity to develop, but are now about to be released. (e.g. Wine or Duke Nukem Forever)

It can therefore be assumed that these two operating systems will also be finished at some point and then one must ask oneself,
if they didn't have what it takes to conquer the desktop.

What do you all mean?


You can find background information here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllable
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_%28Betriebssystem%29

and the desktop environments like KDE and Gnome need a computer with decent performance.
I think it's, sorry, bullshit. Of course, if you want to have every graphic gimmick and waved windows and blinking links on everything, you need a bit of power. However, even my laptop can do that without the Centrino having to clock up at 600Mhz.

None of the replacement systems will prevail if it does not have anywhere near the usability of Windows or the current Linux systems. By no means do I want to claim that this is the ultimate, but here someone looks at something from the other and builds it in somehow. Regardless of whether Windows -> Linux or Linux -> Windows. Vista goes the wrong way for me. Too much BlinkiBlinki and too much user control and many customers seem to see it similarly.

The biggest problem with these free and unbound systems of support is and remains something like that ...
AtheOS inventor Kurt Skauen, however, lost interest in his project around 2001 for private reasons and stopped the further development entirely. The inactivity of Skauens, who did not want any cooperation with the core of his operating system, and his almost complete silence led to a waning of interest.

Without appropriate applications such as Office / OpenOffice, Flash and Co, none of these systems will survive the freak status. For pure office computers it is almost irrelevant how fast they boot or work and whether too many applications or, for example, game developers are now also using NewOS is completely in the stars. See today's DX / D10D problem. Not everyone just changes and that doesn't make it any easier. Without the DX10 / D10D you hardly get any gamer on the other side of the power and have few testers.

I think the current one is just a nice fan project without the possibility of being able to interfere in Linux / Unix / Windows / Mac things in the future.

With desktop operating systems, only compatibility counts.

Nobody wants a system for which there is no Flash player, for example. A new operating system that does not rely on the huge Linux driver base has absolutely no chance.

I think it's, sorry, bullshit.


KDE and Gnome do not run properly on computers with e.g. 32 MB RAM, Haiku and Syllable do!
And you can't enjoy KDE and Gnome on a Pentium 2 either.

So that's by no means bullshit, it's true.


See today's DX / D10D problem. Not everyone just changes and that doesn't make it any easier. Without the DX10 / D10D you hardly get any gamer on the other side of the power and have few testers.

There is OpenGL and with OpenGL 3.0 it will be lean and easier to program for game developers.



I think the current one is just a nice fan project without the possibility of being able to interfere in Linux / Unix / Windows / Mac things in the future.

Linux (seen as a complete system) and Windows just have the problem that they do not allow any profound changes in terms of design, because you would have to make a hard cut for that, which, however, destroys the downward compatibility.
Therefore there is only developed on the outside of the symptoms.

To give just one example, Haiku saves the assignment to an icon in the form of attributes in the file system together with the program or data file.
This makes Haiku incredibly quick to list and display a directory of icons.

This is not the case with Linux, where the program and data files are in the file system without any further information.
An assignment to the icons must be made externally via the desktop environment, the
save the entries in further * .desktop menu files which then also have to be parsed.
This makes listing a directory extremely sluggish.

And these are concepts that cannot be changed so quickly in Linux,
after all, you would have to change the file system and all desktop environments
make this feature known to use the file system.
So the changes are revolutionary, but you don't make them,
because they tip over too much and the Freedesktop standards have only just been established, but this is not a good solution for a desktop operating system, because Haiku is better, faster and more efficient.

Addendum:

And of course such changes will never be made with Linux,
because Linux is not just a desktop, but also a server operating system.

And for server operating systems you don't need an attribute for icons and things like that, but a high data throughput for pure file access.
That's why all the desktop stuff is deliberately put on with Linux.


By the way, there's a good introduction to haiku here on Google Video:
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879&q=haiku

Sure, what are we talking about? An OS which will appear in version 1.0 in 5 years and does not need 32MB RAM?
KDE and Gnome do not run properly on computers with e.g. 32 MB RAM, Haiku and Syllable do!
And you can't enjoy KDE and Gnome on a Pentium 2 either.
If you are still working with a PII in 5 years, you can only feel sorry for yesterday's tendency towards technology. Even the smallest reasonably up-to-date Intel / AMD manages Linux with 20 € for RAM.

In principle, I don't find the idea bad either, just what is the point? You need developers and users - or the luck that someone buys you and market everything better than you do yourself. Let's talk again in 5 years. In the end, do a little more with the OS than cache things or whatever, and that in turn may lead to other bottlenecks.

Kind regards

Nobody wants a system for which there is no Flash player, for example.
But I. Finally an almost ad-free, resource-saving Internet. It works a bit with the 64-bit IE ... But there are still the annoying requests to please install Flash.

Good, currant poop. Of course there are people who surf with Lynx or who think 32MB Ram is great because "on the other hand" is so nice. Certainly a life without Flash and ActiveX and scripting is also worth living. It's also OK, everyone has their own. Here, the "alternative operating system" may assert itself as a niche product. The question remains whether it can be counted somewhere at some point or whether it remains somewhere behind MacOS.

But then tell the Mio Vista buyers - whom I still don't understand today. Nobody needs the blinker, but discussing it is idle.

Kind regards

If you are still working with a PII in 5 years, you can only feel sorry for yesterday's tendency towards technology. Even the smallest reasonably up-to-date Intel / AMD manages Linux with 20 € for RAM.


A new notebook costs $ 500 and up but many people would still love yours
old good notebook with Pentium 2 CPU but only use 64 MB RAM in the maximum configuration level.
And let's be honest, if you just want to write letters, emails and surf websites, you don't need a faster computer.
Many people also want a computer because they can put it in the kitchen and it boots up so quickly that you can work with the computer in less than 5 seconds after switching it on.

And neither Linux nor Windows can do that, so that they can do that, they have to abuse the Suspend to Disk function or, even worse, go into standby.
But these are not correct solutions.

now it comes again ... "today's user only wants Blinkiblinki" ... then I'll be the very first Vista user to run the old Win98 style X-D

(almost) nobody buys Vista because of its looks; alternatively, nobody today would rail against Vista and perceive XP as godlike, although it looks similar.

What is more important for people is, as discussed earlier: The popular software runs on the operating system.

Addendum:

There is also the possibility of using Haiku for Embeddes systems, which usually have a RAM shortage.

A Nokia Internet Tablet, for example, only has 128 MB RAM and a CPU that is just as fast as a Pentium 2 @ 266 MHz.
Haiku would be ideal for such a computer.

Addendum:

There is also the possibility of using Haiku for Embeddes systems, which usually have a RAM shortage.

A Nokia Internet Tablet, for example, only has 128 MB RAM and a CPU that is just as fast as a Pentium 2 @ 266 MHz.
Haiku would be ideal for such a computer.


or for the box that is in my parents' house .... a Cyrix MKIII @ 300Mhz with 128MB PS / 2 Ram

there is a slimmed-down ubuntu with icewm running on it ...

the thing is only used as a "net station" without a flash player

Linux (seen as a complete system) and Windows just have the problem that they do not allow any profound changes in terms of design, because you would have to make a hard cut for that, which, however, destroys the downward compatibility.
Therefore, there is only developed on the outside of the symptoms.


Bullshit, Linux is flexible like nothing else, runs on almost all platforms and is structured completely differently depending on the distribution, file system, etc.


To give just one example, Haiku saves the assignment to an icon in the form of attributes in the file system together with the program or data file.
This makes Haiku incredibly quick to list and display a directory of icons.


This is a user interface thing and has nothing to do with the operating system or kernel. Incidentally, something like this does not only come from haiku, but was defined years ago in the DIN / ISO OpenDocument Standard, which is used by OpenOffice and other programs regardless of the platform. In this case, the Open Document files are zip / tar archives with a folder structure with individual XMl files and, among other things, an icon that is always regenerated when the file is saved and can be displayed by the file browser.
The whole thing is just a question of the extent to which all file standards support this and to what extent the program supports it.
File formats are not determined by the operating system, but rather by the respective application. If the application provides for it like this (like OpenOffice, that's fine and good, if not, you can't help and just have to take icons that are loaded from the cache - which, in my opinion, is the faster solution. It's not a problem to keep all file icons in RAM and to have to load them from each individual file much faster.


This is not the case with Linux, where the program and data files are in the file system without any further information.
An assignment to the icons must be made externally via the desktop environment, the
save the entries in further * .desktop menu files which then also have to be parsed.
This makes listing a directory extremely sluggish.

Not really, with 100 jpegs, for example on a digicam memory card or in a vacation pictures folder, it is much faster to use a standard icon for all jpegs instead of loading all icons from the file. well, modenr is anyway to show a preview of the content and it is also faster to save all thumbs folder by folder instead of distributing them in each individual file.

[/ QUOTE]
And these are concepts that cannot be changed so quickly in Linux,
after all, you would have to change the file system and all desktop environments
make this feature known to use the file system. [/ QUOTE]

Changing a file system on Linux or using a different one is no problem. There are FSs like sand am mehr, with all their advantages and disadvantages like ext2, xfs, jfs, reiser3, reiser4 or the flexible unionFS.
If you think you could make a file system better, then do it - Linux is so flexible.


or for the box that is in my parents' house .... a Cyrix MKIII @ 300Mhz with 128MB PS / 2 Ram

there is currently a slimmed-down ubuntu with icewm on it ...

the thing is only used as a "net station" without a flash player

cool, I just bought a board with RS690G for 32 € and a 1.9Ghz 64bit CPU for 18 €. I still have the 1GB RAM lying around and with a high-speed 2GB CF card the thing will use 15Watt to 45Watt under load in idle and be at least 20x faster than your cyrix rocket in everyday applications.
Just what your cyrix pounds in additional electricity costs, in addition to the noise pollution in contrast to my passively cooled 70 € PC, will put the costs into perspective again. - And then there is the annoyance when one of the old hardware parts fails and the long waiting time during installation and conversion.
- It wouldn't be worth it to me.

I don't really understand all of these hopeless hardware nostalgics. It's not worth it from the beginning to the end and just makes you work and worry.

many people would still love her
old good notebook with Pentium 2 CPU but only use 64 MB RAM in the maximum configuration level.
And let's be honest, if you just want to write letters, emails and surf websites, you don't need a faster computer.
Many people also want a computer because they can put it in the kitchen and it boots up so quickly that you can work with the computer in less than 5 seconds after switching it on.

"Lots of people" don't have such old notebooks. Because at that time the devices were much more expensive and nowhere near as widespread as they have been since the price drop that has started in recent years. That's not a relevant amount of users.

There are sleep functions for quick activation. Even with Windows, I can be able to work again after a few seconds. And that's even more practical than booting quickly.

when these niche OSes are finished, HOPEFULLY Flashroms and the like finally arrived in the normal PC area. Some Asus boards have such a stripped-down Linx in the ROM and there you can boot ASAP and so on. I do not know? X38 chipset or something?
but many people would still love her
old good notebook with Pentium 2 CPU but only use 64 MB RAM in the maximum configuration level.
??Many people??

It would be interesting to see how these niche operating systems, for example, get along with 22 "monitors and 32MB RAM ... or what do I know. Even if we talk unnecessarily about such ancient systems, these operating systems don't get around cache and co. When surfing. The slowest thing about such old hardware things is the disk and if these alternative systems have to read everything from disk without caching (because only 32MB RAM), the advantage will certainly soon be gone.

cool, I just bought a board with RS690G for 32 € and a 1.9Ghz 64bit CPU for 18 €. I still have the 1GB RAM lying around and with a high-speed 2GB CF card the thing will use 15 watts to 45 watts under load in idle mode and be at least 20 times faster than your cyrix rocket in everyday applications.
Just what your cyrix pounds in additional electricity costs, in addition to the noise pollution in contrast to my passively cooled 70 € PC, will put the costs into perspective again. - And then there is the annoyance when one of the old hardware parts fails and the long waiting time during installation and conversion.
- It wouldn't be worth it to me.

I don't really understand all of these hopeless hardware nostalgics. It's not worth it from the beginning to the end and only makes you work and worry.


that's nice for you, it's just not my computer ..... and the owners don't want anyone else .... Please Notice: This is an automatically translated article!

I also have NEN s939 board and NEN A64 3000+ ne X1950pro
power supply plate housing anyway
it's all lying around ...

only missing DDR1 memory ...

Bullshit, Linux is flexible like nothing else, runs on almost all platforms and is structured completely differently depending on the distribution, file system, etc.

Why do you want to have a say if you have no idea?
There are people like you who defend Linux to death but have no idea under the hood about Linux and probably never wrote a program for Linux.

Linux, for example, can mount BeOS file systems, but it cannot use the attributes, that's the way it is, there is no complaining, inform yourself and see it.




This is a user interface thing and has nothing to do with the operating system or kernel.

Lol, just because it's just a user interface thing on Linux doesn't mean that
that this is exactly the holy grail for a desktop operating system.



By the way, that doesn't just come from haiku,

It originally comes from BeOS and that was there before the Open Document Standard,
as a by the way, to inform an unsuspecting person like you about something that has nothing to do with ODF.


Instead, it was defined years ago in the DIN / ISO OpenDocument Standard, which is used by OpenOffice and other programs regardless of the platform. In this case, the Open Document files are zip / tar archives with a folder structure with individual XMl files and, among other things, an icon that is always regenerated when the file is saved and can be displayed by the file browser.
The whole thing is just a question of the extent to which all file standards support this and to what extent the program supports it.
File formats are not determined by the operating system, but rather by the respective application. If the application provides for it like this (like OpenOffice, that's fine and good, if not, you can't help and just have to take icons that are loaded from the cache - which, in my opinion, is the faster solution. It's not a problem to keep all file icons in RAM and to have to load them from each individual file much faster.
[QUOTE]
Hi, hi, a DAU is trying to explain something to me.
Listen, friend, when I read through your writing, you don't seem to know what it's about.

Educate yourself and don't talk rubbish together here.
Here to read:
http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/practical-file-system-design.pdf




[QUOTE]
Not really, with 100 jpegs, for example on a digicam memory card or in a vacation pictures folder, it is much faster to use a standard icon for all jpegs instead of loading all icons from the file.

I never claimed that the icons are loaded from the file.
Read my post again above.
You seem to have absolutely no idea.


well, modenr is anyway to show a preview of the content and it is also faster to save all thumbs folder by folder instead of distributing them in each individual file.

The quickest way is to save a mini-preview as an attribute.
But you have no idea anyway, because you don't even know that Linux mini-previews are located as individual small images in the ~. / Thumb directory
and therefore the hard disk has to jump back and forth twice, once to open the data in the thumb folder and another time to load the actual file.


Changing a file system on Linux or using a different one is no problem.

You see, it is precisely because of such stupid answers that you are a DAU.
Because just because you can load a file system doesn't mean that Linux is able to use the features that the file system offers.




There are FSs like sand am mehr, with all their advantages and disadvantages like ext2, xfs, jfs, reiser3, reiser4 or the flexible unionFS.
If you think you could make a file system better, then do it - Linux is so flexible.

Oh Dau, go home when you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Einstein were to read your writing, he would turn in the grave and create storm in the process.

"Lots of people" don't have such old notebooks. Because at that time the devices were much more expensive and nowhere near as widespread as they have been since the price drop that has started in recent years. That's not a relevant amount of users.


Poor students usually buy these old notebooks.

I would be more interested in an operating system that is built around a slim browser ... (who knows what?)

where really nothing should continue to run on it .... there are certainly enough people who use certain computers only as a "surf station"

basically a bootable opera (or something similar)

I would be more interested in an operating system that is built around a slim browser ... (who knows what?)

where really nothing should continue to run on it .... there are certainly enough people who use certain computers only as a "surf station"

basically a bootable opera (or something similar)

With Linux you can also start the browser in the X Window environment instead of a desktop environment.
That comes closest to what you want in terms of feel.


KDE also offers kiosk mode for this.


However, this does not make the substructure slim because the X window is bold.
An alternative would be haiku with a browser.

Why do you want to have a say if you have no idea?

You don't have more than cheeky, lurid sayings right?

There are people like you who defend Linux to death but have no idea under the hood about Linux and probably never wrote a program for Linux.

I've done a lot more with Linux than you most likely, including patching, compiling and using experimental file systems (since unionfs was alpha). Before you can show something here shut up and don't offend other people.


Linux, for example, can mount BeOS file systems, but it cannot use the attributes, that's the way it is, there is no complaining, inform yourself and see it.

Why should it be there, after all, it is BeOS, a relic. XFS is much more interesting in the high performance area with large files etc., reiser4 is one of the coolest FS anyway.




Lol, just because it's just a user interface thing on Linux doesn't mean that
that this is exactly the holy grail for a desktop operating system.

I didn't state that either. I just meant the haiku or something else it is definitely not!
I doubt there is a holy grail on desktop OSs anyway. In addition to any graphical theory, the program compatibility, the interface, the image, what the users have of the software (marketing?) And so on also play a role. All things that cannot be precisely expressed mathematically, but which can be determined (e.g. statistically). Linux may not be optimal there either, but after all, statistics only show tendencies and no yes or no.



Hi, hi, a DAU is trying to explain something to me.
Listen, friend, when I read through your writing, you don't seem to know what it's about.

Not only that you insult me ​​bitterly and hide behind your guest account, you also come out with no arguments or any truth from behind the mountain. This is pure bragging about what you're doing here, pretending you know everything better.
The ODF is an XML container format, just like the proprietary staroffice format sxw etc. before, you obviously cannot invalidate.


Educate yourself and don't talk rubbish together here.
Here to read:
http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/practical-file-system-design.pdf

I want to see benches, not leafing through a few pages.
Theoretical advantages don't interest me a damn, it has to be practical.


The quickest way is to save a mini-preview as an attribute.
But you have no idea anyway, because you don't even know that Linux mini-previews are located as individual small images in the ~. / Thumb directory
and therefore the hard disk has to jump back and forth twice, once to open the data in the thumb folder and another time to load the actual file.

I'm also talking about Windows. Not all of my post is devoted to your imaginary Haiku vs Linux battle.
In addition, the actual file does not have to be loaded during a folder preview. You only have to jump if the icon is in the same block as the file. it makes more sense to write all the icons of a folder in adjacent sectors on the disk.


You see, it is precisely because of such stupid answers that you are a DAU.
Because just because you can load a file system doesn't mean that Linux is able to use the features that the file system offers.

Oh Dau, go home when you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Einstein were to read your writing, he would turn in the grave and create storm in the process.

Did you slowly vent your hatred of Linux users?
Such people, who can only rush with swear words, like you, should be blocked or their postings simply deleted! You know that you don't follow the rules of the game, so you post as a guest, like a coward.

I will leave your next offensive post uncommented, I don't have to let myself down to your level any further. I stick to the discussion rules, you don't, so all those posts are simply ignored.
Think about it and maturity.

With Linux you can also start the browser in the X Window environment instead of a desktop environment.
That comes closest to what you want in terms of feel.


KDE also offers the kiosk mode for this.


However, this does not make the substructure slim because the X window is bold.
An alternative would be haiku with a browser.


I once ran Haiku with the VMWare player, but I can't find a browser

I would be more interested in an operating system that is built around a slim browser ... (who knows what?)

where really nothing should continue to run on it .... there are certainly enough people who use certain computers only as a "surf station"

basically a bootable opera (or something similar)

do you mean SplashTop? In any case, it's already relatively slim. Since it is currently only installed on lame flash memories by asus, it takes about 5 seconds to boot. With a decent high-performance CF card or ssd with over 40mb / s, 1-2 seconds are safe. That's enough, what more could you want?

Alternatively, there is hyperspace from the organic manufacturer phoenix.

However, this does not make the substructure slim because the X window is bold.
An alternative would be haiku with a browser.
It depends on which wm you are using for x. blackbox is extremely fast, but I like fluxbox even more, it can also be configured in a very modern way despite the incredible performance, with semi-transparent windows and such bells and whistles ...


- I think the solution for fast booting are SSDs, not old PCs with 32MB RAM and an optimized operating system that can't do anything else because nobody supports it.

It depends on which wm you are using for x. blackbox is extremely fast, but I like fluxbox even more, you can also configure it in a very modern way despite the incredible performance, with semi-transparent windows and such bells and whistles ...


I guess if there is no window manager at all because you don't need that for "web browsing", especially since everything is played in the browser via tab

To give just one example, Haiku saves the assignment to an icon in the form of attributes in the file system together with the program or data file.
This makes Haiku incredibly quick to list and display a directory of icons.

That may be quick; From a design perspective, I think that's incredibly disgusting.

I've done a lot more with Linux than you most likely, including patching, compiling and using experimental file systems (since unionfs was alpha). Before you can show something here shut up and don't offend other people.

Then it is all the more sad that you have to understand the limitations of Linux. the other filesystems don't know.



Why should it be there, after all, it is BeOS, a relic.

Nonsense, just because BeOS no longer exists doesn't mean that the BeOS concepts are out of date.


XFS is much more interesting in the high performance area with large files etc., reiser4 is one of the coolest FS anyway.

A server file system like XFS follows a completely different concept than a file system like BFS, which was designed for the desktop.
You cannot lump everything together here and if you do it anyway, then I am sorry I have to deny you the competence in this area.



I didn't state that either. I just meant the haiku or something else it is definitely not!
I doubt there is a holy grail on desktop OSs anyway. In addition to any graphical theory, the program compatibility, the interface, the image, what the users have of the software (marketing?) And so on also play a role. All things that cannot be precisely expressed mathematically, but which can be determined (e.g. statistically). Linux may not be optimal there either, but after all, statistics only show tendencies and no yes or no.


Here, too, you will bring the market share and the technical concept of desktop systems back into one pot.
It's unscientific.
If Windows has a high market share, it can mean a lot
but that doesn't mean it's a good desktop OS from a technical point of view.
It looks different with Haiku or BeOS, you can very well say
that some of the concepts, such as the object-oriented associative file system or the transports, BeOS or Haiku, make a technically well-designed Deskop OS.





Not only that you insult me ​​bitterly and hide behind your guest account, you also come out from behind the mountain with no arguments or any truth.

I have already given you the link to the PDF file and it is not my job to broaden your horizons or to explain things to you such as advantages that are there but that you cannot see or cannot recognize.
For example, the thing with the icons and your completely unrelated switch to ODF, which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.




The ODF is an XML container format, just like the proprietary staroffice format sxw etc. before, you obviously cannot invalidate.

Well, that's the problem why I don't want to explain everything to you fairly.
It is simply not my job to explain to you that and why ODF is not the subject here.
And since you switch to ODF you don't even seem to know
how the icon assignment works on a desktop for Linux and that although I have already given you the reference to the * .desktop files in a DAU-compliant manner.
So you already received the sign of the fence post from me, but you still didn't see it.
And I have already mentioned that above -> Keyword: things that I would have to explain to you first because you do not recognize them yourself.




I want to see benches, not leafing through a few pages.
Theoretical advantages don't interest me a damn, it has to be practical.

First of all, it's about concepts.
A good computer scientist is able to use the concepts that are mathematically obvious to recognize whether an algorithm might be worthwhile or not and it is exactly the same with file systems.
And if you want to bench, then do it with BeOS that is already optimized for performance while Haiku because of the alpha status still wants to implement the basic things and has pushed the optimization back.




I'm also talking about Windows. Not all of my post is devoted to your imaginary Haiku vs Linux battle.

Whoever hangs Linux vs. Haiku Flamewar on the wall all the time is you and not me.
I know Linux so well that I also know its disadvantages and also see them, in contrast to you, with you it remains a flaming but that seems to be due to your own ignorance. True to the motto:
If you don't know anything else, you don't want to think outside the box and acknowledge the weaknesses of your own system.

And Windows can do ADS (ok, you probably don't know that again),
but like so much with Windows, this is not thought through to the end.
Windows can't do much with ADS.
A comparison to Haiku or BeOS lags enormously, because BeOS or Haiku even includes the attributes in the search and all programs that use the Be API.
That means they can already do that and also apply the functionality.
Quite different with Windows, because like so many other things, it's just packed on top without having a consistent concept.



Did you slowly vent your hatred of Linux users?

As I am a Linux user myself, I cannot have any hatred against Linux users, I just get fed up with these DAUs that don't really know Linux
but defend it as if they programmed it themselves, never writing a single line of code for it.

And yes, precisely because I am an experienced Linux user, I also know the weaknesses of GNU / Linux and see them and can therefore think outside the box.
I simply don't need a blind flamewar like the Linux daus described above.
But if they come like you do, then of course you have to adjust them first, that should be clear.



You know exactly that you don't stick to the rules of the game, so you post as a guest, like a coward.

I post as a guest because my data protection is important to me and I don't want to log in with my email address everywhere.

But of course this point of view seems completely alien to you again, doesn't it?




I will leave your next offensive post uncommented, I don't have to let myself down to your level any further.

It is also unlikely that you can argue anything against me. At least if you take your previous posts as a reference.

I once ran Haiku with the VMWare player, but I can't find a browser

This is because the normal Haiku test image does not contain a browser.

But there is Firefox for Haiku, which you can install afterwards.

It depends on which wm you are using for x.

No, since X is conceptually bold, even a slim World Cup manager doesn't change that, at most they alleviate the symptoms.
That means it is a little faster and more resource-efficient than a fat desktop environment with maybe even thick themes.



blackbox is as quick as a rat,

And yet slower than a desktop environment that works without X.



- I think the solution for fast booting are SSDs, not old PCs with 32MB RAM and an optimized operating system that can't do anything else because nobody supports it.

Even on a computer with SSDs, BeOS or Haiku would be faster than a Linux system.

It is a natural law that a few lean data is loaded faster than a fat system that has innumerable data with redundancies.

That may be quick; From a design perspective, I think that's incredibly disgusting.

Why? Please explain that!
Linux inodes also consume space and their blocks may still have space that could be used for attributes.

That may be quick; From a design perspective, I think that's incredibly disgusting.


I also hope that you have read the PDF file:
http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/practical-file-system-design.pdf


Because there is also a reason why BFS was designed that way.

Haiku starts its own »Summer of Code«

http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2008/12719.html

Poor students usually buy these old notebooks.
Aha, and Haiku or the other thing don't need drivers to address the hardware? There should also be people who use more modern hardware.
The fastest OS is of no use to me if I can only use it with a handful of hardware. SUN had a similar problem with the old solaris. Problem-free on the Sun hardware but woe betide you have slipped a Realtek network card under Solaris 8 x86, then tinkering was announced because their drivers were not included.
If haiku or the other out-of-the box can handle all WiFi cards, I take off my hat. Linux can't really do that. Even if the ndiswrapper works so far, you have to rely on the Windows driver. My old Telekom WiFi module doesn't like Linux Out-Of-The Box, my main servant with 2xSata and an AVM doesn't really like either - that's why the graphics card runs: D. Well ...

Office, browser, a clean mail program (IMAP is best) and you have a small system. In 4-5 years the alternative with SSDs, USB3.0 and something else will have to come along without any problems and we will see if that is the case. I will definitely not test it, for what purpose. I am not a developer ...

Aha, and Haiku or the other thing don't need drivers to address the hardware? There should also be people who use more modern hardware.
The fastest OS is of no use to me if I can only use it with a handful of hardware.

So you don't use Linux?
Is that what you wanted to tell me?




If haiku or the other out-of-the box can handle all WiFi cards, I take off my hat.

As you are used to with every OSS OS, the driver support is getting better from year to year, this also applies to Haiku.
It's not like Haiku sticks to hardware support forever.
Linux doesn't do that either.

I have to say a praise guest, your tone has improved significantly. Maybe something has already matured in the short time ...


A server file system like XFS follows a completely different concept than a file system like BFS, which was designed for the desktop.
You cannot lump everything together here and if you do it anyway, then I am sorry I have to deny you the competence in this area.

We are talking about the tasks of a desktopOS from 2001, because this is supposed to simulate Haiku.
On the other hand, I'm talking about file sizes and computing costs of 2008 and the future that exceed what some servers and mainframes did in 2001. There is only a current 10mP digicam, one or the other dvd-rip, live streaming from the disk, mutlitasked access from a wide variety of devices and threads.
Our everyday desktop use has astonishing parallels to high-end computing from 10 years ago.
- By the way, most of the SGI machines in circulation were also workstations, basically desktops and not servers!
And that's exactly where you notice that the focus that BeOS has set simply no longer works, because you notice the outdated alignment. Nowadays it's about content, not the way you achieve it. And with contemporary hardware and a functioning OS, which may seem a bit cluttered and angular, but at least works and is compatible, you will probably achieve more than with radical approaches.




Here, too, you will bring the market share and the technical concept of desktop systems back into one pot.

Nix market share, that does not appear in my text, read again.


It looks different with Haiku or BeOS, you can very well say
that some of the concepts, such as the object-oriented associative file system or the transports, BeOS or Haiku, make a technically well-designed Deskop OS.

Technically well designed? To be honest, I find it rather unclean if you include content attributes in the file system, such as icons. that already limits the possibilities of use. What the hell do I want in 10 years with icons that are assigned as file attributes and what do I want now for a server, for example? It might make sense if you want to program an OS as it is currently used in the desktop, but I find it questionable in other environments, for example in a desktopOS of tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.



First of all, it's about concepts.
A good computer scientist is able to use the concepts that are mathematically obvious to recognize whether an algorithm might be worthwhile or not and it is exactly the same with file systems.


No one cares what a good computer scientist thinks of algorithms. It's just a lot more interesting what the people on the street think of it.
And they will have completely different requirements, you can count on that. They don't care what kind of substructure your operating system has and whether it can carry out that operation on a given one in 2 or 5 milliseconds. They place a lot more value on the content. And that is exactly the area where the good IT specialist does not manage to look beyond the telelrrand. - icons, nice and good is a mermal that has established itself in the pc area, as well as program windows and buttons, as well as mouse and keyboard.
However, you should start to proceed scientifically if you really want to change something for people and not just want to lead a shadowy existence in a small group of computer scientists. Haiku won't get any better than the previous OSs if they don't understand that the focus of software development is completely different from beautiful code and fast algorithms. Maybe the kernel lying down doesn't matter at all?


And if you want to bench, then do it with BeOS that is already optimized for performance while Haiku because of the alpha status still wants to implement the basic things and has pushed the optimization back.


But BeOS doesn't exactly shoot the hell out of it either. And what should I do with an operating system that might satisfy my desktop needs from 2001 in the future? Multi-user and support for several processor cores are already important features that will soon be used by every heimpc. It simply imitates the far-sighted minimalist approach. At the latest with Nehalem and HT we are beyond the 8 planned cores and the fix will probably take longer than the possibly small patch from microsoft.



And yes, precisely because I am an experienced Linux user, I also know the weaknesses of GNU / Linux and see them and can therefore think outside the box.
I simply don't need a blind flamewar like the Linux daus described above.
But if they come like you do, then of course you have to adjust them first, that should be clear.

Oh, isn't haiku practical? I think that's all well and good if there are still variations, especially because the actual monolithic Linux kernel was intended as a purely interim solution, but before something like that doesn't run as a Gnu plugin kernel or something with the applications of a previous platform, I see black for such projects - especially on the targeted market, the desktop.


I post as a guest because my data protection is important to me and I don't want to log in with my email address everywhere.

But of course this point of view seems completely alien to you again, doesn't it?

I know a little bit the point of view of the suspicious computer scientist;) - After all, read Userfriendly since the first hour ...




It is also unlikely that you can argue anything against me. At least if you take your previous posts as a reference.
I'm more of the hardware man, that interests me, but on the other hand I find the interface very important. They are then there to bring the one-sided ideas of the computer scientists back onto the carpet and to take a look at where the focus is actually and where it belongs.

It is far more important for most people if they can either do their desktop work as they have learned it with great difficulty and for a long time (the windows way) - or if they learn a completely new, intuitive way. that is what matters, the communication, the internal process is relatively irrelevant. And that is the reason why I see 0 opportunities for Haiku, because there is simply a lack of content and content designers (I deliberately do not use the word programmer). The advantages that it may have in a given purpose, but which on the other hand are partly bought by a certain inflexibility, simply do not play a role at all when choosing an operating system.

Just to get away from the technical discussion and go back to the original question: no, the alternative operating systems will not conquer anything because they are not backed by a giant company like Microsoft.
Nothing works without advertising, you have to somehow show people what a product can do. When a small team is putting together a new OS and the last lines of code have been typed, they go to the door to relax and have a smoke while a bus with a giant Vista logo rolls past them and someone with their MacBook Air opens in front of you sitting on a bench.
I don't know how a small programming team wants to set that up.

I haven't heard any really good arguments for something like haiku either. Something like Linux saves the thumbnails here and Haiku saves them there is nonsense, you are guaranteed not to conquer anything because 99.9% of potential users are not interested.

The only thing I've heard so far is that it runs great on ancient machines. However, not even the poor, poor students are so poor that they cannot buy a reasonably up-to-date notebook that runs Windows or Linux.

So? What is left?

http://www.golem.de/0808/61468.html

I am also of the opinion that they are going into too much detail here.
32MB computers are no longer of interest to anyone today and who really brings something like that
just have to live with the fact that he has to install a niche system.

Put the CD in, install it and run it. That is what is required and run properly ......
Above all, the support of the games is very important.

I see Linux as the clear winner because:
- Installation is becoming easier and easier by hand.
- The system is usually complete and free (Office / Internet etc ...)
- There are gradually more and more games for Linux, too, and those for Win can be started more often and faster without any effort.

If Linux still manages to conquer the multimedia area, then I see no more chance for Microsoft. I've been using Linux exclusively for almost a year now and I definitely wouldn't use Windows anymore.

Imagine 90% of all games are ported to Linux. And Linux advertises
- Free
- no viruses
- Great game support
- More quickly
- 20,000 programs for free

What do you think who would buy Vista then? And as I see it, it won't be too long before the hardware manufacturers and game makers jump on the Linux bandwagon.

greeting
Snatch

I also believe that they are going into too much detail here.
32MB computers are no longer of interest to anyone today and who really brings something like that
just have to live with the fact that he has to install a niche system.

Put the CD in, install it and run it. That is what is required and that is to run properly ...
Above all, the support of the games is very important.

I see Linux as the clear winner because:
- Installation is becoming easier and easier by hand.
- The system is usually complete and free (Office / Internet etc ...)
- There are gradually more and more games for Linux, too, and those for Win can be started more often and faster without any effort.

If Linux still manages to conquer the multimedia area, then I see no more chance for Microsoft. I've been using Linux exclusively for almost a year now and I definitely wouldn't use Windows anymore.

greeting
Snatch

KDE and Gnome do not run properly on computers with e.g. 32 MB RAM, Haiku and Syllable do!
And you can't enjoy KDE and Gnome on a Pentium 2 either.

So that's by no means bullshit, it's true.


There is OpenGL and with OpenGL 3.0 it will be lean and easier to program for game developers.


You say that the systems will be ready sometime in 10 years. Who, please, will still be working with 32 MB or using a Pentium 2 in 10 years. Linux has already established itself quite well for small, slim devices in industry or in the consumer market and will probably remain established there for quite a while.

Supporting OpenGL does not help anyone as long as there is no software (e.g. games) that also support it.

In the end, it was a clever move to invent Microsoft DirectX and not rely on OpenGL as well. This means that you have one of the greatest factors in hand when it comes to binding users to your system.

If there was a full-fledged DirectX for Linux, I would never install Windows again. But since I'm a gamer, I can't avoid Windows. Everything else, except gaming, I can already do wonderfully under Linux today.

Supporting OpenGL does not help anyone as long as there is no software (e.g. games) that also support it.

If I remember some of the voices in the forum, the idea of ​​Open GL = Open GL is also a little naive, even if it is probably easier than Direct X -> Open GL!


If there was a full-fledged DirectX for Linux, I would never install Windows again. But since I'm a gamer, I can't avoid Windows. Everything else, except gaming, I can already do wonderfully under Linux today.

That always depends on the use and then again on the respective requirements. I use some programs where I have doubts whether there are equivalent alternatives under Linux at all.

That always depends on the use and then again on the respective requirements. I use some programs where I have doubts whether there are equivalent alternatives under Linux at all.

Naturally. I also talked about my needs, which, apart from gaming, I see completely met under Linux.

http://www.golem.de/0808/61468.html
Syllable has already gone further, the EEE PC has been going on for a long time
And it has a browser with WebKit

But I think OpenBSD will be the future anyway

Imagine 90% of all games are ported to Linux. And Linux advertises
- Free
- no viruses
- Great game support
- More quickly
- 20,000 programs for free

60% of all Windows games already run on Linux with Wine

The problems are, however, the sometimes not so good hardware support and speed, especially in terms of RAM consumption and 2D / 3D speed, improvement is necessary

With small WM's, Linux is at least much more economical than Windows and the problem of 2D speed does not exist there, but you have to do a lot by hand

PS: Why can't I post here as a guest while others can?

Just to get away from the technical discussion and go back to the original question: no, the alternative operating systems will not conquer anything because they are not backed by a giant company like Microsoft.
Giant corporations behind alternative operating systems?
Something like that?
http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/linux/passport.swf
http://www.pcwelt.de/start/software_os/linux/news/174414/google_und_linux_sollen_enger_kooperieren/

And if we're honest, Microsoft has been more influential than they are today.

Today there is Java in Open Source, with Gnash a reasonably functioning (and getting better and better) Flash alternative and when you say browser, even under Windows, not everyone immediately thinks of Internet Explorer. If we're lucky, OGG and SVG will even establish themselves in our beautiful Web2.0 world and in a few years (decades) even games will run nicely portable under something free that can be compared with Java3D.

When we're ready, what do we care what operating system we're using?
Perhaps we can then really choose from all operating systems for which common open source software can be compiled and for which someone has already ported the open source drivers from Linux.

Would be nice. If I can actually save license costs or even computing power (= energy) without major restrictions, I will do that too.

Who will really be? Well, I don't believe in Linux as much as I would like: The GPL is somehow not perfect for everyone, the concept behind the kernel is not particularly modern and I also find the X server concept a bit ... unnecessary.

Poor students usually buy these old notebooks.

This niche will be filled by netbooks.

I wouldn't use a P2 notebook for anything else except as a music player in the basement bar, it could break any second. The keyboard is worn out, the drive is not even a burner, WiFi is only available via an additional card.

Rofl who wants something like that, if there are new netbooks for 299 or 399 that are 10x more powerful, nicer and quieter. And Windows is not sluggish on them ...

Rofl who wants something like that when there are new netbooks for 299 or 399 that are 10x more powerful, nicer and quieter. And Windows is not sluggish on them ...
Rofl ... environmental protection? Emerging markets? (An OLPC is slower than some P2 laptops).

My first laptop as a (computer science) student cost 50 €; my monthly income was around 150 € (of which I paid rent and food). I wanted something like that.

An OLPC is slower than some P2 laptops

that's nonsense ;)

If we're lucky, OGG and SVG will even establish themselves in our beautiful Web2.0 world

You don't think so yourself. ;)

I rather assume that after all the nice OpenSource alternatives like JavaFX and SVG / JS they'll all rush to Silverlight and Flash again ... of which there are also OpenSource versions, but you don't have to fool yourself they will always lag behind and cause problems ...

Even if Microsoft's power has shrunk (see Office format battle (but they haven't lost anyway)), they still have enough of it and they won't run out of money anytime soon.

that's nonsense ;)
You don't think so yourself. ;)
Such a crap; I will never manage to interpret these similies correctly.

As for Flash, well, I don't know. Perhaps there will also be an "Adobe Flash plugin goes OpenSource" when Gnash is advanced enough and / or the alternatives threaten to prevail - similar to e.g. Java (classpath.org).
I don't know to what extent Adobe hopes to be able to make money with a proprietary Flash plugin (that you have to maintain yourself and for which you don’t pay any money).

That an OLPC is pretty lame is no nonsense; but maybe the smilie meant that too: confused:

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